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Anyone who follows the national dialogue surrounding immigration issues in the USA, especially as it relates to illegal immigration, is sure to have encountered the so-called “biblical” arguments advanced by theological liberals for unlimited, unhindered immigration.  One of the stock-in-trades of the pro-amnesty, anti-borders, pro-globalism side of the argument is to put some left-wing religious figure before a microphone and have them repeat out-of-context biblical citations, mostly drawn from the Pentateuch (which is generally the only portion of the Bible with which their handlers are familiar).  These verses typically include,

“Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 22:21)

“Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 23:9)

“And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:33-34)

“And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.” (Leviticus 25:35)

“Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 10:19)

One must admit that it seems a bit odd to see theological leftists, who at no other time would believe what the Bible says or take its words at face value, suddenly morph into textual literalists on this one, specific issue.

The average person looks at these progressive arguments and thinks that there’s no way the Bible is really telling us that we should take in unlimited numbers of immigrants while ignoring the laws of the land and replacing our own populations with inassimilable foreigners.

The average person would be right. As the reader probably suspected, these interpretations are completely out of the context in which the Bible approaches the set of issues surrounding “strangers,” otherwise being foreigners dwelling in the land of Israel.  Specifically, the liberals who make these arguments evince essentially no recognition of the widely used hospitality motif which these verses form a part of in the Scriptures, and which is very similar in its overall form to that found in literature from across the ancient Near East and the Mediterranean basin.

An excellent overview of this motif as it intersects with larger epic elements within ancient literature, both biblical and secular, can be found in Chapter 2 of Bruce Louden’s book, Homer’s Odyssey and the Near East.  In this chapter, he discusses the theme of theoxeny, which is a literary element in which mortals entertain or otherwise show hospitality to God/gods who are in disguise (sometimes knowing who they are, but often not).  Involved with this discussion is an analysis of the overall theme of hospitality as it pertained to the relevant ancient cultures.

In the ancient world, hospitality was an integral part of maintaining social stability and safety from outsiders.  As it was typically exercised, hospitality involved the temporary acceptance into the host’s household of outsiders (who may or may not have been cultural outsiders, but were still considered xenoi, even if from a neighbouring city), placing them under the host’s protection while simultaneously obligating the one receiving hospitality to implicit loyalty and obedience to their host,

“Hospitality was the creation of a temporary patronage relationship with the host as patron and the guest as client. The motivation behind offering hospitality to a stranger lay in the increased honor one had in assimilating a potential threat into the community by asserting one’s superiority over the newcomer. Guests played their role in this arrangement by acceptance of the offered hospitality. The practical benefit of this arrangement was that it defused a confrontational moment with the potential for violence. Reciprocity was essential to the arrangement’s success. Hosts honored guests by extending favor and protection in order to increase their own honor. Guests accepted the honor of the host and, in doing so, added to the host’s honor as patron. For either party to be denied its due in the relationship created the situation of injustice.” (Louden, pp. 30-31, citing T.M. Bolin, “The Role of Exchange in Ancient Mediterranean Religion and Its Implications for Reading Genesis 18-19,” Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, Vol. 29:1 (2004), pp. 37-56, at p. 45)

Essentially, hospitality was a way of “taming” a potentially hostile or divisive element (a foreigner) and bringing them within the social system of their host household or society.  Hospitality involved much more than the shallow, flippant sense of “being nice” that drives the thinking of most modern expositors.  Instead, it served as a way of making potentially hostile aliens acceptable to the community.  It was a way of bringing those outside of fellowship into that koinonia.

The biblical witness serves as testimony to the fact that God considers hospitality to be very important.  The motif is often used in the New Testament, especially as a picture of acceptance for salvation and being brought into fellowship with God.  For instance, the Lord Jesus Christ uses it in Luke 7:36-47 to draw an implicit contrast between Simon the Pharisee (who did not show Jesus even the most basic of customary acts of hospitality when having Him in his home) versus the repentant prostitute who humbled herself to show Jesus every manner of hospitality.  Jesus said of this woman,

“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.” (Luke 7:47)

She, whose acts of hospitality were indicative of a truly repentant heart desiring salvation and fellowship with her Creator, was the one whose sins were forgiven and who was made right with God.  Salvation is also depicted in hospitality/fellowship terms in Ephesians 2:12-13 where Paul discusses the access which Gentiles have to the promises of God through Christ,

“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”

Gentiles, who were once the enemies of God (c.f. Colossians 1:21), have been “tamed” by faith in Christ and brought into the fellowship of God in His churches.  A similar sense is also seen in Revelation 3:20, where Christ is in turn depicted as knocking on the door of His people who need to repent, desiring the restoration of fellowship with them.

However, all of this must be understood with the full biblical record in view.  In the Old Testament, while the law of God does include the verses given above exhorting Israel to show kindness to the stranger, this cannot be rightly understood apart from what the Law also said about the need for strangers to assimilate themselves and be brought into fellowship with the laws, traditions, and culture of Israel.  Several examples from the Law should suffice to illustrate my point here,

“And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.  One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.” (Exodus 12:48-49)

“Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.” (Leviticus 17:12)

“Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you.” (Leviticus 18:26)

“One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.” (Numbers 15:15)

And so on.  The necessary synthesis that needs to be made here is to understand that God exhorted Israel toward kindness to strangers within the context of well-understood customs and ideology relating to hospitality rules that anyone in the ancient world would have rightly understood.  Granting hospitality to strangers was not “being nice” and “caring about people,” it was an act designed to prevent strangers from disrupting the unity and social cohesion of the Israelite polity.  If a stranger came to Israel, he or she was (as Ruth did) to reject their former culture and become completely Israelite in every way.  Let us also note here that the context ALWAYS seems to imply individuals or family groups, not large masses of foreigners as a body – which would rightly have been understood to be an invasion.

In situations where these customs regarding hospitality were broken by the guest, the host was usually justified in punitive action against the offender (as with Odysseus destroying Penelope’s suitors at the instigation of Athena).  Likewise, when the host was the offender, God or the gods was called in to punish the transgressor (as with Laban losing the benefits of God’s blessings upon Jacob when he was abusing Jacob’s service).  This aspect of hospitality custom is also present in the Pentateuchal Law,

“And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations. Upon man’s flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you. Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger, shall even be cut off from his people.” (Exodus 30:31-33)

“And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.” (Leviticus 17:10)

“And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.” (Numbers 1:51)

Implicitly, these and similar passages are talking about strangers who were residing in Israel (most likely merchants or other “economic refugees”) who did not assimilate themselves to Israel.  These people occupied a much different place than did the others – while physically present, they were outside the covenant and congregation of Israel, and were not allowed to participate in the fundamental unifying rituals of the nation while still being required to refrain from positive violations of God’s Law.  Their behaviour was much less tolerated and they were essentially “on probation,” you might say.  Presuming to take to themselves the rights and privileges of homeborn Israelites resulted most often in death for the offender.

In general, inhospitality – the violation of hospitality customs and protections – was a grave sin in ancient traditional societies.  As seen above, it was certainly not unheard of for such violations to result in death for the offenders.  One well-known example given by Louden is the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19.  It IS correct, generally speaking, to argue that the sin (or, rather, one of the sins) of Sodom was inhospitality.  This is clearly seen in the attempt by the Sodomites to rape (and kill, in the unspoken but very real subtext) the two angels who were under the protection of Lot’s hospitality (and in a more extended sense, under the hospitality of the city of Sodom itself).  Of course, to ignore the element of their homosexual behaviour – which is elsewhere in the OT explicitly connected and condemned through the use of the term “sodomite” in non-violent contexts, as well as the destruction of Gomorrah and the other cities of the plain, which were not involved in the specific incident involving the angels – is to ignore the forest for the trees.  However, the drastic violation of hospitality custom is clearly shown to be “the icing on the cake” demonstrating that Sodom merited the pouring out of God’s fiery wrath.

The opposite type of inhospitality – that involving guests going beyond the boundaries of their rights as xenoi and abusing their hosts – also clearly deserved and earned death in the relevant epic literature.  Louden repeatedly points to the situation in the Odyssey in which the suitors seeking Penelope’s hand (believing Odysseus to be lost or dead) are depicted as inhospitable louts, intimidating Telemachus (Odysseus’ son), eating up Odysseus’ wealth through their feasting and winebibbing, and physically abusing beggars (including the disguised Odysseus himself) who were also under the protection of the Ithacan kingdom.  Odysseus’ destruction of the suitors – “smearing the floor with their blood and brains” – is pictured as the righteous justice of Athena against them, using Odysseus himself as the goddess’ revenge upon their offences against the laws of hospitality.

All of this information puts the religious progressive into a bit of a quandary.  If they wish to accept one aspect of what the Bible says about hospitality, then they must necessarily also accept the rest of what it says as well, if they wish to be consistent.  The Bible says to be hospitable to strangers – but it also demands that strangers show hospitality by assimilating to the community and refraining from being a source of disharmony.  Likewise, it’s hard to accept that inhospitality was the sin of Sodom while refusing to accept the rest of what the Law said about the dangers of inhospitality.

All of this very clearly applies to the immigration situation in America and the West today.  What we see is that immigration (and really, this applies as much to legal as to illegal) clearly operates in ways which show a well-defined inhospitality towards the host cultures (i.e. white, Western nations):

A good portion of it is illegal, meaning it is done in complete contravention to our laws

Even the legal immigration is often simply done as a means of exploiting economic opportunity at the expense of native-born Americans (or other Westerners), which creates a burden on our societies and introduces greater economic insecurity (i.e. less social cohesion).

Immigrants rarely assimilate fully, but often create parallel societies which operate under their own native cultural mores and rules, rather than our own.

 Many immigrants are arrogant and entitled, acting as if our societies owed them something and demanding ever-increasing allocation of resources, rather than being grateful for our hospitality and protection.

In many cases, immigrants directly contribute in socially detrimental ways through crime, disease, and other dangers.

Simply put, there is not really any sort of credible argument which can be made for applying biblical hospitality laws to the present mass immigration phenomenon in the West.  If anything, the situation merits the application of a negative understanding of ancient hospitality motifs – that which occurs when guests abuse their privileges and potentially incur penalties against themselves for their presumptuousness.  Far from enjoying the favour of God, we should seriously consider the proposition that God’s Word condemns the behaviour of the vast bulk of immigrants and “refugees” who have come to our nations. While I am certainly not advocating the mass destruction of immigrants and foreigners in our Western countries, we should seriously consider attaching penalties to their behaviour such as repatriation and the confiscation of goods and wealth wrongfully taken from our societies.
I won't be giving browns hospitality either. It feels good breaking Yahweh's rules.
Replies: >>1722
>>1721
If anything God is named Theos.
Replies: >>1723
>>1722
>I am the LORD your God
"the LORD" is a mistranslation of Yahweh that common English Bibles use. The original text says Yahweh. Yahweh was a local deity of the ancient Levant within a larger pantheon
Replies: >>1724 >>1728 >>1808
>>1723
The original is Greek. Not "hebrew"

>Yahweh was a local deity of the ancient Levant within a larger pantheon
Not even the edomites make that claim seriously now. What is your evidence.
Replies: >>1725
>>1724
>The original is Greek.
Nobody who has looked at the Greek text thinks it's original. It has all the qualities one would expect from a translation, including the fact that it's GSL (Greek Second Language) and includes Hebraisms. Open up LXX Genesis 1 and it doesn't even use Greek word order for sentences.

All that said, it's not even necessary to show you that the Greek text is secondary. The oldest Greek manuscripts say Yahweh:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Q120
Replies: >>1727
>Fuck you whitey.  I beat cho ass and rape yo fuckin sister.
I doubt that's what God had in mind when he was telling us to be nice to immigrants.
Replies: >>1727
>>1725
>Iaō...ΙΑΩ
Not Yahwah. It means god and was applied to others too. This is where the retarded notion that dionysius was God comes from.

>The manuscript was written in the Hasmonean period, and Patrick W. Skehan dated 4Q120 to "late first century BCE or opening years of the first century CE".
>Hasmonean
So after the edomite takeover of Isreal.

>Apart from minor variants, the main interest of the text lies in its use of ΙΑΩ (Iaō) to translate the tetragrammaton in Leviticus 3:12 (frg. 6) and 4:27 (frg. 20). The presence of the name of God in this ancient manuscript has supported the conclusion of some scholars that this was the original form in the Septuagint.[7] Skehan, Tov and Ulrich agrees that "this writing of the divine name is more original than Κύριος".[4]
The evidence is proof of itself. It's the original and most accurate because of the name, and because it's the most accurate, the name is correct. See the circular reasoning.

All older fragment, circa 200 BC, before the edomites, do not have yahwah.

There are the Ketef Hinnom scrolls. But those are dubious.

>>1726
Correct. He told us to be nice to the sojourner. The sojourner does not stay.
Replies: >>1729 >>1731
>>1723
>Yahweh was a local deity of the ancient Levant within a larger pantheon
Please show evidence of that.
Replies: >>1733
>>1727
I A Ω
I am the A and the Ω.
Prefigured Christ.
>>1727
>>Iaō...ΙΑΩ
>Not Yahwah.
It means Yahweh. You don't get to decide arbitrarily that it doesn't. This is one way the Hebrew word would be expected to be transliterated into Greek.

>It means god
You pulled that out of your ass. It's a name.

>>The manuscript was written in the Hasmonean period, and Patrick W. Skehan dated 4Q120 to "late first century BCE or opening years of the first century CE".
>>Hasmonean
>So after the edomite takeover of Isreal.
There was no such thing. Referring to a fictional event is not an argument. Besides, the manuscript is absurdly old. If you are going with this excuse, then the entire Greek Old Testament still in use today must have been tampered with by "Edomites".

>The evidence is proof of itself. It's the original and most accurate because of the name, and because it's the most accurate, the name is correct. See the circular reasoning.
It's original and most accurate because Yahweh only appears in the oldest fragments.

>All older fragment, circa 200 BC, before the edomites, do not have yahwah.
What fragment would you like to cite that is as old as 200 BC or older?
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/21885
>a. Papyrus Fouad 266:
>Portions of Deuteronomy, 100 BCE. Known for its representation of the tetragrammaton using square Hebrew script.5
Replies: >>1738
>>1728
>Please show evidence of that.
It's what the Bible itself says. A couple of the more notable verse in support of this claim are Deuteronomy 32:8-9. There's a lot of literature on these verses, so this idea is very well known—at least academically.

Canonically, Yahweh isn't God. He's just a son of the elohim (gods). The polytheist Israelites referred to the chief god of the pantheon as ʿelyôn “The Most High”, one of the epithets of El seen in Gen 14:20 as “ʾel ʿelyôn”.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9
>When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
>when he divided mankind,
>he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of elohim (gods).
>For YHWH’s portion is his people,
>Yaʿăqōb is the allotment of his inheritance.
In other words, Yahweh was one of these recipients of an inheritance from the highest god and Yahweh is a son of the gods. If an ancient Greek were to ask an ancient Israelite if Israel was chosen by God, he would say no, Israel was inherited by Yahweh and Greece was inherited by Zeus.

This polytheist reading of Deut 32:8-9 is supported by both the Hebrew and Greek texts, and while people make a big deal out of how the Dead Sea Scrolls proved the Hebrew text was later changed, the original polytheist reading was predicted before the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered based on Greek textual variants which preserve the oldest reading.

https://dssenglishbible.com/scroll4Q37.htm
Replies: >>1747
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>>1731
>ΙΑΩ
It is a name. It doesn't mean Yahwah. See:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/1c3qzr9/divine_name_%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%89_yhw_on_a_2nd_century_bc/

Though if you pointed to St. Jerome, I'd cead that ΙΑΩ was a name used for God at those times, being roughly equivalent to Jupiter or Jove.

>late first century BCE or opening years of the first century CE...fictional
So during the rule of the Idumeans. Edomite Arabs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great

What a blatant lie you made. By your logic, history never happened.

The older fragments, Greek, 2nd century BC do contain Theos, Kyrios, or nothing. These fragments do not have yahwah or ΙΑΩ anywhere. 

From your link:
>a. 4QLXXLeva:
>Lev. 26:2-16, late 2nd C. BCE. A small number of lexical discrepancies between the Leviticus manuscripts and later available LXX text has led Emanuel Tov to conclude that the 4QLXXLeva represents an earlier version of the Greek text, probably a freer translation of the Hebrew. Notably, John W. Wevers, in producing his Leviticus volume of the Göttingen edition of the Septuagint, did not select any of these readings.3
No YHWH, Older
>b. 4QpapLXXLevb:
>Lev. 2-5 with lacunae, 1st C. BCE or CE. These fragments are best known for their (to my knowledge) unique representation of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton using the Greek transliteration ΙΑΩ (iaō) rather than the more common translation (but see 2b., below) κυριος (lord).
ΙΑΩ is very unusual, good to know.
>b. Papyrus Rylands 458:
>Approximately 20 scattered verses from Deuteronomy, c. 150 BCE. This is the oldest available manuscript of the Old Greek Bible. In addition to its antiquity, it is known for its blank spaces in place of the tetragrammaton, which have been the subject of much speculation.
No YHWH, Older

As to that fragment you cite, the oldest it could be is 100 BC and the only reason it is claimed to be more original...is...the word YHWH. See the circular reasoning there. Also see picrel, which indicates that the version it was copied from used Kyrios, bearing out my point. It was probably written circa 30 BC.

As to tampering by kikes. The masoretic certainly is and there are many recorded instances of kikes editing those books after Christ defeated Death. The english translations are rather kiked as well increasingly so, the more recent they are. The Septuagint and Pershitta, on the other hand are intact. This is why the oldest edition of the Douy Rheims and a copy from the Greek and Aramaic by the Eastern Orthodox are really the best to use. If needed the KJ could be used with awareness of its issues.

As to the second. I'll respond later.
Replies: >>1742
>>1738
>It doesn't mean Yahwah.
Stop this nonsense. This is precisely how one would transliterate Hebrew into Greek. You cannot assert it doesn't mean Yahweh with a straight face when this is an expected outcome of spoken Hebrew into Greek letters. You are just putting your head in the sand.

<In the 4th century CE Jerome, who translated the Latin Vulgate Bible from Hebrew and Greek, mentions both Iaoh and Iaho or Jaho, the latter matching the transliteration of Aramaic-Hebrew יהו.
The Greek and Hebrew alphabets are not in one-to-one correspondence phonologically. Hebrew/Aramaic compared to Koine Greek phonology:
yod /j/ - iota /i/
∅ /a/ - alpha /a/
he /h/ - ∅ /∅/
waw /o/ - omega /o/

Hebrew/Aramaic /ja.ho/
Koine Greek /i.a.o/
The reason for the difference is there is no /j/ in Koine Greek, and /h/ would only be pronounced word initially. If you want to imagine there was a Koine Greek with a Hebrew accent, then Ιαω may have been pronounced /ja.(h)o/.
Replies: >>1744
>>1742
>I'd cead that ΙΑΩ was a name used for God at those times, being roughly equivalent to Jove.
Yep. Already said that. I also cead that they're same name as Dyus/zeus are the same. Circa the edomitic takeover. 

You've overlooked:
>The older fragments, Greek, 2nd century BC do contain Theos, Kyrios, or nothing. These fragments do not have yahwah or ΙΑΩ anywhere. Etc.
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>>1733
No. God is the most High. He took the Israelites for his direct portion. Gave the rest of the peoples under the guardianship of var. angels such as the 72. There are of course many more spirits, angels, ergores, demons, etc., that are all ultimately subject to him. 

From the fact you're using yahwah I assume you're using the masoretic.
>For YHWH’s portion is his people,
>Yaʿăqōb is the allotment of his inheritance.
Mind telling me where you got that bit specifically? Because it's not in what you linked.
Picrel, is what you linked.

This is the KJ of what you're missing: Deuteronomy 32:8-9
>https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Deuteronomy-Chapter-32/

Edited with the scroll fragment you linked.
8 When the most High diuided to the nations their inheritance, 
when he separated the sonnes of Adam, 
he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the sons of God. (Angels)
9 For the Lord's portion is his people: Iacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Ie. God selected the Israelites for his direct portion as said above.
The Isrealite always claimed the Most High.

The polytheist assumption of elohim is retarded. God is Triune and He has His angels, etc. many of whom could be called gods.
Replies: >>1761 >>1790
sojourn = just passing through 
not
let's illegally enter the country, undercut whitey, leach off of their jew system 
or 
let's illegally enter the country and rob and rape and murder whitey.
100% of illegal aliens are criminals and those who refuse to self deport should be sentenced to 5 years hard labor building wall.
Replies: >>1752
>>1750
Let's help them move on.
Replies: >>1753
>>1752
Help them move onto their next life cycle in the afterlife, sure.
Replies: >>1754
>>1753
Dump them all in African Then cut the food supplies.
>>1747
>Mind telling me where you got that bit specifically?
Don't pay it much mind. I did that a while back by comparing different translations on BibleHub and trying to pick the best wording. Then I did somethign extra autistic by copying and pasting Hebrew from BibleHub's interlinear text into an automatic transliterator in order to render names in a very exact way for extra effect. I thought it was funny to emphasize how foreign and Semitic a name like Jacob is when shown literally.
Replies: >>1762
>>1761
Oh and that part is Deut 32:9. The Dead Sea Scrolls may not have it because they are fragments.
Replies: >>1765
>>1762
https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/32-9.htm

>The Dead Sea Scrolls may not have it because they are fragments.
It didn't. This is the most correct interpretation:
8 When the most High divided to the nations, their inheritance, 
when He separated the sons of Adam, 
He set the bounds of the people according to the number of the sons of God. (Angels)
9 For the Lord's (God the Most High) portion is his people: Iacob is the lot of his inheritance.

How does your henotheism work and who do you consider the Most High? That's more on topic anyway for this thread.
Replies: >>1766 >>1767 >>1770
>>1765
>Lord's (God the Most High)
Not what it says
Replies: >>1769
>>1765
>the sons of God. (Angels)
Also not what it says
>>1766
How does your henotheism work and who do you consider the Most High?
Replies: >>1770 >>1772
>>1765
>>1769
Not to interrupt you anons, but is henotheism a term that's been in popular useage for a long time in academia? I am a well-studied self-taught amateur in relation to theology, mythology, and related topics—yet, this is the first I've seen the term. It's a very good one. Wouldn't this mean also that pretty much all monotheism faiths are henotheism? I can't think of any that don't take other deities and gods seriously, as literal entities besides opposition to their symbolic manifestations. The Torah and Old Testament are rife with such examples, as a small sampling.
Replies: >>1771
>>1770
It was coined in the late 1800s. I picked it up from Chesterton, where he talks about the de-evolution of Noah's Faith.

>Wouldn't this mean also that pretty much all monotheism faiths are henotheistic.
It's more like what anon said here:
>Yahweh was one of these recipients of an inheritance from the highest god and Yahweh is a son of the gods. If an ancient Greek were to ask an ancient Israelite if Israel was chosen by God, he would say no, Israel was inherited by Yahweh and Greece was inherited by Zeus
Village gods and all that.

If you worship the Most High alone while acknowledging his servants, that's more traditional Christianity.

Strict monotheism is more Islam and Prots.

The term's not used much for on. reasons.

What people don't consider is that most isms are true to an extent.
>>1769
I've had a busy day. I'm probably not going to be able to answer in detail until tomorrow, but briefly I will go over Deut 32:8-9 one more time.

For most casual readers of the Bible, it goes right over their heads that the text makes reference to distinct deities with different roles. Specifically, Gen 14:20 refers to ʾel ʿelyôn which means "The Highest God".
This is the same entity referred to as "The Highest" ("The Most High") in Deut 32:8. The idea in Deut 32:8-9 is that the highest god is dividing up the nations according to the number of the sons of elohim and this is implicitly referring to the Table of 70 nations from Genesis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_Noah#Table_of_Nations
There is a minor difficulty with the first line that I should have taken notice of earlier:
>When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
Smith's Literal Translation gives:
>The Most High distributing the nations,
ISV says:
>When the Most High gave nations as their inheritance,

There are 70 sons of elohim. This means there are 70 gods, each one over a different nation. Contextually, it's clearly talking about these gods receiving an inheritance. That's why it talks about Yahweh's portion and how Jacob (Israel) is his inheritance. Because Yahweh is a recipient of an inheritance from the highest god, he cannot be the Most High.

That's all there is to it. It's really basic polytheism. Israelites originally thought Yahweh was a local god over Israel and the Highest God assigned different gods over different nations.

Some additional difficulties arise in the textual transmission of Genesis. Critical texts reveal that Yahweh has been inserted into places where he originally wasn't mentioned in the Genesis narrative, so some verses cause confusion. The average religious person has never seen or heard of a critical text so they never learn about this stuff.
Replies: >>1773 >>1776 >>1778
>>1772
>Critical texts reveal
Actually I'm misremembering a bit, but the principle is still textual criticism. I do not remember at the moment if an individual critical text exposes many of these instances. The majority of them are seen by comparing the Greek and Hebrew texts. Of course, if you want to do that rigorously you would put their respective critical texts side-by-side. (I've done that among other things). There really should be a combined Hebrew-Greek critical text, but it would make a really large book so it would need to be digitized as a Wiki or something.
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>>1772
All right, here's some more information.
Hebrew Genesis has two phrases with some minor variations:
1. elohim
2. Yahweh elohim

1) is the actor of Genesis 1.
2) is of course referring to Yahweh, but Yahweh elohim is a longer title.
elohim can be understood several ways. In principle it is a plural, so the reading "gods" can be contextually justified. Alternatively, Bible scholars also suggest it can be understood as a "concretized abstract plural". The precise semantic interpretation has some leeway, but the idea is that Biblical Hebrew can signify a an abstract state of being with the plural marker. That is, -im can signify that elohim means "divinity" rather than "gods", and then elohim meaning "divinity" was further concretized to "the divine", "the divine [one]", or even "deity". You may notice that the interpretive license means we've come full circle: "the divine" readily signals a collective of gods, while "the divine [one]" is singular. The bottom line is that the inherent plurality cannot be disposed of by lexical means. Paying attention to context and using good reading comprehension is necessary.

Yahweh elohim can in theory be read several ways:
1. "Yahweh of [the] gods" (construct phrase)
2. "Yahweh of the divine" (construct phrase)
3. "Yahweh of the divine [one]" (construct phrase)
4. "Yahweh, the divine [one]" (apposition)
5. "Yahweh, [the] deity" (apposition)

1) and 2) tell us rather plainly that Yahweh belongs to a pantheon or to a multitude of divine beings. This reading is very straightforward and literal. There is no rule against it. 3) Makes Yahweh subordinate to a higher deity, but positing "[one]" is less efficient. 4) and 5) are suspicious. Is there a need to explain that Yahweh is a deity? Surely Yahweh wasn't also a common name for a human, so there wouldn't be a need to distinguish. On the other hand, conveying "Yahweh of those elohim we were talking about earlier" is reasonable. Alternatively, 4) and 5) are odd because they are the result of a textual emendation. (elohimYahweh elohim). Some instances of Yahweh elohim are definitely not original, so one can wonder if any instances in Genesis are original at all. We don't have the full textual history, so this is possible.

Finally, let's see how these phrase are translated into Greek:
1) elohim = ὁ θεός "the deity/god"
2) Yahweh elohim = κύριος ὁ θεός "Lord, the deity/god"

Using this information we can see that the Hebrew and Greek textual traditions disagree on the verses where Yahweh is present. See the picture.
Replies: >>1778 >>1780
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>>1772
>Elohim
...The Trinity. Why is this always brought up. There's the Trinity, there's the elohim means divinity and back around to God, there's pluralization as a stressor, there's the deer-deer usage of the word in the Bible, there's the Greek not concording and being pre-extant. That's not your argument anyway. Your argument is:
>Because Yahweh is a recipient of an inheritance from the highest god, he cannot be the Most High. 

>Critical texts reveal
Meaning modern scholars rewrote it and now it doesn't make sense.

>Because Yahweh is a recipient of an inheritance from the highest god, he cannot be the Most High.
He is the Most High and reserving a portion for himself. If you push that, behold: Triune, The Father, The Son.
Also you completely miss the fact that Israel wasn't one of the nations until later...God creates Israel because none of the nations are behaving properly. Or, if someone actually studies the history of religion, fell to blatant angel worship, fallen or otherwise. Thor, Apollo, etc.
You also miss that the son of God or angel assigned to Israel was Michael, who is definitely not the Lord. This shows up in Daniel and elsewhere.

Out of interest, do you cleave to masoretic or Septuagint? Because the latter predates the former.
https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=5&page=32
This is the Septuagint:
>ὅτε διεμέριζεν ὁ ῞Υψιστος ἔθνη, ὡς διέσπειρεν υἱοὺς ᾿Αδάμ, ἔστησεν ὅρια ἐθνῶν κατὰ ἀριθμὸν ἀγγέλων Θεοῦ, 9 καὶ ἐγενήθη μερίς Κυρίου λαὸς αὐτοῦ ᾿Ιακώβ, σχοίνισμα κληρονομίας αὐτοῦ ᾿Ισραήλ.
Translation:
>When the Most High divided the nations, as he scattered the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the angels of God, 9 and Jacob became the portion of the Lord his people, Israel the cord of his inheritance.

You can see the providence of the two bible versions you are quoting in the picrels. An amateur attempt by a prot woman and blatant kikery.
>https://web.archive.org/web/20180419202627/https://www.isv.org/bible/

>>1776
>Elohim is a mess and can mean any number of things.
Yes.
>1) and 2) tell us rather plainly that Yahweh belongs to a pantheon or to a multitude of divine beings.
The Lord of the gods, the Lord of the divine, are equally valid meanings.
>3)
Grammatical error/extremely unlikely usage. Irelevent.
>4) and 5) are suspicious. Is there a need to explain that Yahweh is a deity?
God Omnipotent, the Divine Lord, God the Almighty, the Lord God, etc. It's a double stress. You see it all the time in every religion.

>1) elohim = ὁ θεός "the deity/god"
The God
>2) Yahweh elohim = κύριος ὁ θεός "Lord, the deity/god"
Yahwah the God or the Lord God
The difference is extremely overblown.
Replies: >>1786 >>1789 >>1790
>>1776
You are also ignoring the rest of the Bible where it is made clear that God is the Most High, over and over again.
>>1778
>An amateur attempt by a prot woman
Her translation style is idiosyncratic but because she did it by herself she wasn't hindered by anyone else's dogma. This allows the literalism to shine through in many cases. Other times her style is awkward.
Replies: >>1787
>>1786
Or it's an amateur translation done by an overly literal Calvinist woman that wanted to make the end time prophesy more accurate. She primarily used the masoretic and made a real hash of it. Not especially accurate or reliable.

>hindered by anyone else's dogma
Look where that got the Prots. Tradition is as necessary as the Bible. The number of hoops Prots have to jump though is more amusing than anything.
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>>1778
>Out of interest, do you cleave to masoretic or Septuagint?
Neither.  I'm not religious. They are just two different textual traditions that can both be used for textual criticism. Neither one represent the original text. If someone wishes to uncover the oldest recoverable form of the text, he should use all tools at his disposal. For the Old Testament, I recommend comparing critical texts of the Septuagint, the Masoretic, the Samaritan Pentateuch, and the Dead Sea Scrolls at a minimum.

I will go over the first line of Deuteronmy 32:8 one more time.
First review these translations: https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/32-8.htm
You will notice that it is not just two translations which disagree with the idea that the nations are inheriting something. Indeed, the Septuagint uses the verb διαμερίζω "to divide". What is the source of the discrepancy?

First use good reading comprehension skills! What is the next verse?
<For YHWH’s portion [is] His people, Jacob his allotted inheritance.
How did we go from nations inheriting something to YHWH inheriting something? Is YHWH a nation? Huh?
Context clues strongly suggest the first line of Deut 32:8 should read:
<When the Most High gave the nations as an inheritance
or
<When the Most High bequeathed the nations

Why are so many translations fumbling the ball here? The answer is the Masoretic vocalization is wrong. See here:
https://www.stepbible.org/?q=version=ESV@version=THOT@version=OHB@version=SP@version=LXX@version=AB@version=ABEn@version=ABGk@reference=Deut.32&options=VNUGH&display=INTERLEAVED&sort=false
I can't read Hebrew but I can look at this interlinear text and it tells me parts of speech and morphology. Put your eyes on the very first word of Deut 32:8 and click it:
בְּהַנְחֵל
It should say "verb hiphil inifinitive absolute". What is a hiphil verb? I've included a screenshot.
The basic meaning of the verb is "to inherit". When the verb is conjugated as hiphil it means "to cause to inherit". This is why the translations using the Masoretic want the verse to say the nations are inheritng something, but mysteriously it doesn't say what they're inheriting.

When this text was originally written in Hebrew, there were not many vowels, and because of this, multiple readings could be given for a single word in the past. Look at the screenshot again. There's also a passive voice verb conjugation called hophal. If the Masoretes had decided to mark the vowels on the word to indicate the hophal conjugation, the verse would read differently. You can see there is no spelling difference besides the vowel diacritics:
https://uhg.readthedocs.io/en/latest/stem_hiphil.html
https://uhg.readthedocs.io/en/latest/stem_hophal.html

With the hophal vocalization the verse reads:
<When the Most High caused the nations to be inherited
Who is inheriting the nations? Gods. Yahweh is given as an example of one of the gods who are inheriting.
Replies: >>1790
>>1789
Or you're making a mountains out of molehills. You do know that the masoretic was edited after Christ by the edomites, right? As far as it goes, it's like trusting the Talmud on anything. There are the Dead Sea Sea scrolls and the Septuagint. 
See:
>>1747
DSS with a portion of KJV for 32:9
>8 When the most High gave to the nations their inheritance(land/territories), when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the sons of God. 
>9 For the Lord's portion is his people: Iacob is the lot of his inheritance.
>>1778
Greek Septuigent
>8 When the Most High divided the nations, as he scattered the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the angels of God, 
>9 and Jacob became the portion of the Lord, his people, Israel the cord of his inheritance.

It'd be interesting to see the original text in the DSS. I can't find it anywhere.

>multiple readings could be given for a single word in the past
So any number of meanings. How do you know your's is correct.

You're reading one, specific meaning that isn't there. You're also ignoring:
>Triune, The Father, The Son.
>Also you completely miss the fact that Israel wasn't one of the nations until later...God creates Israel because none of the nations are behaving properly. Or, if someone actually studies the history of religion, fell to blatant angel worship, fallen or otherwise. Thor, Apollo, etc.
>You also miss that the son of God or angel assigned to Israel was Michael, who is definitely not the Lord. This shows up in Daniel and elsewhere.
>Everywhere else the Lord is stated to be the Most High.

Wait a moment.
>Same behavior.
>Textual criticism.
>Samaritan Pentateuch.
>Syntax, writing style.
>Posting tables from the same book.
You're the anon arguing for plato being the source of the Septuagint over here:
https://ourchan.org/r/thread/1681.html

Now, you're contradicting yourself. If as you claim in the other thread, the Septuagint is an artificial composition written in 250BC, your argument here makes no sense, because the fictional actions of a, to you, fictional being are irrelevant to reality.

>This began to be alarming. It looked not so much as if Christianity was bad enough to include any vices, but rather as if any stick was good enough to beat Christianity with. What again could this astonishing thing be like which people were so anxious to contradict, that in doing so they did not mind contradicting themselves? I saw the same thing on every side. I can give no further space to this discussion of it in detail; but lest any one supposes that I have unfairly selected three accidental cases I will run briefly through a few others. Thus, certain sceptics wrote that the great crime of Christianity had been its attack on the family; it had dragged women to the loneliness and contemplation of the cloister, away from their homes and their children. But, then, other sceptics (slightly more advanced) said that the great crime of Christianity was forcing the family and marriage upon us; that it doomed women to the drudgery of their homes and children, and forbade them loneliness and contemplation. The charge was actually reversed. Or, again, certain phrases in the Epistles or the marriage service, were said by the anti-Christians to show contempt for woman's intellect. But I found that the anti-Christians themselves had a contempt for woman's intellect; for it was their great sneer at the Church on the Continent that "only women" went to it. Or again, Christianity was reproached with its naked and hungry habits; with its sackcloth and dried peas. But the next minute Christianity was being reproached with its pomp and its ritualism; its shrines of porphyry and its robes of gold. It was abused for being too plain and for being too coloured. Again Christianity had always been accused of restraining sexuality too much, when Bradlaugh the Malthusian discovered that it restrained it too little. It is often accused in the same breath of prim respectability and of religious extravagance. Between the covers of the same atheistic pamphlet I have found the faith rebuked for its disunion, "One thinks one thing, and one another," and rebuked also for its union, "It is difference of opinion that prevents the world from going to the dogs." In the same conversation a free-thinker, a friend of mine, blamed Christianity for despising Jews, and then despised it himself for being Jewish.
--VI THE PARADOXES OF CHRISTIANITY, GK Chesterton, Orthodoxy.

Feels rather like:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JEVlMRuMmg
>>1790
>Now, you're contradicting yourself.
Where?
I never said the Septuagint was written in 250 BC specifically, although a 3rd century BC date would be reasonable. I never said it was an "artificial construction". I don't know what you mean by that.

First a Hebrew text was written. Then it was translated to Greek.  Neither the Masoretic nor Septuagint texts that we have today should be understood as original, because they have likely undergone numerous revisions which are now lost to us. Sometimes the Septuagint gives a better window into the original text, and sometimes rather the Masoretic does. That is my position.
Replies: >>1794
>>1790
>How do you know your's is correct.
Basic reading comprehension skills. I explained it at length. Take it or leave it.
>>1790
>It'd be interesting to see the original text in the DSS. I can't find it anywhere.
The DSS critical edition is on Library Genesis
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>>1791
You mean that you aren't the anon over here? 
https://archive.is/P7yhw
>firmly situates the Pentateuch within a Hellenistic context no older than 281 BC.
>Picrel

>Sometimes the Septuagint gives a better window into the original text, and sometimes rather the Masoretic does.
<Sometimes the Christian and pre-Christ version is better, and sometimes the kike version is better.

The earliest complete Septuagint is AD 300. The earliest complete masoretic is 10th century. The fragments are mixed back from there to about 250 BC and agree with the Septuagint. The Greek is equally valid, if not more so.

>Basic reading comprehension skills. I explained it at length. Take it or leave it.
<Because I said so. Ignoring everything that contradicts me.

>The DSS critical edition is on Library Genesis
I will take a look.
Replies: >>1795
>>1794
>Ignoring everything that contradicts me.
Literally the only thing that directly contradicts my interpretation which matters is the Masoretic text. I'm just not going to appeal to the authority of the Masoretic vocalization. That's retarded, especially when the Septuagint disagrees and the reading makes no sense contextually.

>You mean that you aren't the anon over here?
Why does it matter? If I am that person, isn't it obvious that neither of us said 250 BC specifically?
Replies: >>1797
>>1795
>>1790
Both versions here make perfect contextual sense and correlate with the rest of the Bible. Your's relies on assumptions and is contradicted by the BIble.

<Pentateuch is accurate as to the disposition of the Most High being the father of Yahwah according to my highly contorted translation. 
<Pentateuch was created by merging Plato with Babylonian myth and is an artificially constructed text.
So why are you arguing these contradictory points? How do you cohere them?
Replies: >>1798
>>1797
>Both versions here make perfect contextual sense
They don't. I've already gone to great trouble to explain this. Take it or leave it. I'm not here to beg anyone to believe me.

><Pentateuch is accurate as to the disposition of the Most High being the father of Yahwah according to my highly contorted translation.
><Pentateuch was created by merging Plato with Babylonian myth and is an artificially constructed text.
The first is me just trying to carefully explain what the text literally says. The second is just a theory for the origin of the text. I don't understand what you think is contradictory here. By the way, this idea that Deut 32:8-9 demonstrates polytheism is absurdly mainstream. If it interests you, you should go read what others have said. Maybe it'll click after seeing other perspectives and understanding I'm not the only person in the world saying this. There's 70 nations because all the way back in the pantheon of the Ugaritic texts there were 70 sons of El.
Replies: >>1799
>>1798
>This idea that Deut 32:8-9 demonstrates polytheism is absurdly mainstream
So's the idea that trannies are woman. I've seen the other perspectives, they are as convincing as yours.

As said elsewhere
>Enuma Elish ... Genesis. Both having recordings of the same event with Genesis being less corrupt. 
>Funny how that works. It's almost like indo-euro/aryan/noahidics have a unified origin. It's even funnier how the further back you go, the more monotheism and the One God/Sky Father becomes apparent and that the records of Greeks, Hindis, Mesopotamians, Shinites, Egyptians, Mayans, etc. all reinforce this.

There are 72 angels assigned by God at the tower of babel. Some fell. Others were assigned later. Some Saints also serve in this role.
We do agree on that. So who do you think is the Most High? How does your religion work? What do you worship?
Replies: >>1800
>>1799
I'm not religious.
Replies: >>1801 >>1802
>>1800
So what's your code then? How do you live life?
Replies: >>1803
>>1800
Why are you even arguing for polytheism then?
Replies: >>1803
>>1802
Because it's the correct way to read the Bible and one time I saw someone become "jailbroken" after learning he was no longer beholden to the Judeo-Christian deity Yahweh. To an extent I just like to see how people react to this information.

>>1801
The goal is to survive and become successful. Sometimes I meditate. I've had experiences that altered my perception of life and death, so I don't find any comfort or anxiety in religious stories about it. One day I was sitting still for a brief moment and suddenly my mind became so quiet that it "dried up" and delusions I had previously entertained just fell away. I tried to find a word to describe this experience. It's possible some call it kenshō.
Replies: >>1804
>>1803
>"I've had experiences that altered my perception of life and death"
Mind sharing? I'd love to know more.
Replies: >>1805
>>1804
That moment when my mind became quiet was one of them. I prefer not to talk about the rest.
Replies: >>1806
>>1805
Bad trip?
>>1723
Is it that simple? Or do we need more knowledge of latin, greek and hebrew to fully understand the context of how everything came to be.
Replies: >>1809
>>1808
Is it that simple?
Yes, it's that simple
https://glanier.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/%CF%80%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B9-and-the-use-of-hebrew-in-greek-manuscripts/
>Option 1: translating YHWH as kyrios.
>Option 2: translating YHWH into Greek as ιαω.
>Option 3: leaving a blank space in the Greek text where YHWH appears in the underlying Hebrew, or filling it in with four dots.
>Option 4: inserting Hebrew letters for YHWH in the Greek text. Many manuscripts reveal that Jewish scribes would often leave a gap in the text when they got to YHWH in their Hebrew exemplar, and a different scribe (likely one trained to do this task, who was well-versed in Hebrew writing) would come along and insert the Hebrew YHWH into the Greek text.
<this professor showed me an old Jewish Greek manuscript that had a marginal note that included both the YHWH in Hebrew and “Pipi” in Greek letters; apparently it was not uncommon to see the tetragrammaton actually show up in this peculiar Greek form in the text  itself (ΠΙΠΙ), too, rather than the Hebrew (יהוה). Moreover, Jerome, the great translator of the Vulgate, commented in a letter in 384 AD that “certain ignorant ones, because of the similarity of the characters, when they would find it in Greek books, were accustomed to read PIPI” (source).

The entire reason Κύριος "Lord" is even a thing in the Bible is because Jews developed a superstition about saying or writing YHWH outside of an authentic Hebrew Torah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_take_the_name_of_the_Lord_thy_God_in_vain
>To avoid coming under guilt by accidentally misusing God's name, Jewish scholars do not write or pronounce the proper name in most circumstances, but use substitutes such as "Adonai" ("the Lord") or "HaShem" ("the Name").[18] In English translations of the Bible, the name Adonai is often translated "Lord", while the proper name Yahweh represented by the tetragrammaton is often indicated by the use of capital and small capital letters, Lᴏʀᴅ.[19]

If you encounter a religious Jew on the Internet, they are often even afraid to say God and instead type G-d.

By the time of the New Testament, new scriptures would not write YHWH and instead used Κύριος. Probably partly because of this, when Christians were making their editions of the Old Testament, no trace of YHWH appeared in Greek anymore. Additionally, some Christian manuscripts were doing curious things with abbreviations called "Nomina Sacra". I remember seeing the abbreviation ΚΣ (= Κύριος) in the Old Testament replaced with ΧΣ (= Χύριος incorrect spelling but sounds similar) because it matched ΧΣ (= Χριστός) in the New Testament.
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