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Promised by God


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A while ago, I found out that the word church comes from the Greek "ekklesia," which means "a called out assembly."

I found out recently that "elect" comes from the Greek "eklektos," which seems to have been translated faithfully into English.

I guess ekklesia is technically a derivative of "kaleo" ("to call") but the relationship to eklektos seems obvious to me.

I know there's a lot of differing opinions out there about the relationship between election, predestination, and God's foreknowledge, but to me, I feel like this is what I see in the Bible:

The "church" (ekklesia) is a called out assembly of elect (eklekta) and predestined individuals, not simply foreknown about but foreknown *BY* God (because you wouldn't fill an ekklesia with people you didn't know) for the express purpose of conforming us to the likeness of the Son.

Does this sound right, based off the Greek words? My mom calls me Calvinist and my dad says it's a heresy. I feel like I can't un-see this in my Bible. I feel that people who boil it all down simply to foreknowledge (meaning, God does not choose His elect, He just knows ahead of time who will and won't be saved) basically just say that words don't mean what they clearly mean, and that's their whole argument. They skip right over every instance of the words "elect" and "predestine" in their Bibles and use the occasional "foreknown" as a get-out-of-jail-free card so that they don't have to wrestle with tough theology. Or am I just retarded? I would love to know other people's opinions on this and refine my own.
Replies: >>2604
Your parents and majority of population on Earth are sunday school Christians, they dont understand their religion nor its denominations in the slightest of bits, thats why they call critical thinking and trying to understand it truly a heresy. There is lots of confirmation bias among plebs where they selectively pick things from books like Bible to comfort themselves purpousfully excluding the actual truth and background of the things written.
Replies: >>2597
Do you think at the end we're going to a magical multi coloured cube in the sky after the flying scorpions come out of the pit?
Replies: >>2598
>>2595
I appreciate this, I do get tired of being treated like I'm breaking bounds whenever I'm asking questions, looking into things most people ignore, etc. Do you have any thoughts on what it actually means tho? I'm not fully convinced of the whole elect thing to the extent that Calvin seems to have been. It's just harder and harder for me to ignore it the more I study my Bible. But I also know I'm kind of stuck in this election vs foreknowledge dichotomy, and I wanna see if anyone has any other ideas that I can look into
Replies: >>2599
>>2596
I'm not sure I understand your comment. The flying scorpions are from Revelation right? I'm sure there's plenty of metaphor in Revelation, but I haven't yet sat down and seriously studied it. Not sure where the multi-colored cube came from.
Replies: >>2599 >>2600
>>2597
>>2598
Not a Bible schoolar myself just in advance. 

If no one was asking questions, none of denominations would exist, they exist becuase they dared ask and interpret things differently (whether its true or not, thats a different topic).

I am not acquainted with Calvinists. Orthodox Christians also believe that every regime is appointed by God (well if country is Christian of course), but its not that black and white, there is some idea that also you are appointed by God, but you still have agency and free will to control and stay close with God and not straying away, but im not an expert on this stuff, just some surface level knowledge.

>Not sure where the multi-colored cube came from.
Some mineral or rock/meteorite from space, like Kabba is for Islam i suppose. There are all sorts of outer space elements present across Earth, and ME is not an exception. Seeing a multi-colored rock/meteorite back than did influence religion.
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>>2598
Modern eyes believe these things to be metaphorical, but I can assure you in the ancient times they were proclaimed they were literal. Bowls of blood, sky cubes, pits with flying scorpion things. Beasts from the sea...
Replies: >>2601
>>2600
>but I can assure you in the ancient times they were proclaimed they were literal. Bowls of blood, sky cubes, pits with flying scorpion things. Beasts from the sea...
Lol no. Even back then it was metaphors considering what they were probably talking about, current regimes and such etc. There were some thing that were a bit literal like sea monsters, but that persisted to this very day.
Replies: >>2602
>>2601
Was Jesus rising from the dead, simply a metaphor there slav?
Replies: >>2603
>>2602
The Gospels are different from apocalyptic literature. Differentiating between genres is important when decided what to interpret metaphorically and what to interpret literally.
Replies: >>2605
>>2594 (OP) 
You're talking about predestination: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

Traditional Christian teaching says essentially that everyone in heaven is there according to God's Will and that those in hell are there of their free choice to reject God's Will, because God does not impose Himself on us. 

Contrast this to Calvin who said that God wills people to sin and therefore enter hell. Both heaven and hell are ultimately up to us. God does not force Himself on those who do not want Him and so end up in hell. 

It's a long and tough discussion, but start with the link above. Also understand that we divide God's Will into His active Will ("Let there be light") and his passive Will (to permit things to happen without direct intervention). So if we end up rejecting Him and chosing hell, it is through His passive will that He permits us to make that choice. Again, back to the errors of Calvin, who essentially said that God actively wills people into hell.
Replies: >>2606
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>>2603
there's the parable of the sower and such, those are clearly metaphorical and easily seen that way. But at no point in revelation do we get any indication anything in the story is metaphorical. It is entirely in line with other prophecies in the bible. 

No, this is all supposed to be taken at face value. And was written in a time before electricity, modern science and the rest. Angels and god could do whatever they wanted because it was magic. You either take it as real or you don't. The re-imagination of the story to fit modern sensibilities is erroneous.
Replies: >>2607
>>2604
Haven't clicked the link, but this sounds on the right track to me. After posting thr OP, I learned that in Romans 9, I forget the exact verses but where he mentions vessels prepared for wrath and vessels prepared for mercy, I found out the word "prepared" is actually 2 different Greek words. The "prepared" in prepared for wrath / destruction apparently implies that the person prepared themselves, whereas the "prepared" in prepared for mercy implies being prepared by another person, so in this case God. Seems to line up with what you said really well.
>>2605
I agree with you that we shouldn't try and pin the things from Revelation on modern things. I don't agree that Nueralink is the mark or anything like that. But Revelation is of a kind with Daniel, and the 4-headed beast from Daniel is well understood to represent the 4 nations that controlled Palestine after the fall of the kingdom of Judah; Babylon, Persia/Media, Greece, Rome. The one that represents Persia/Media even had 2 horns, one smaller one larger, if I'm not mistaken. And stuff doesn't have to be explicitly said to be metaphorical. Look at Joseph's dream of the stars bowing down to him, or Peter vision of the animals on the sheet. Neither are explicitly stated to be metaphorical, but they are. The Hebrew language in general is metaphorical (https://voices.sefaria.org/sheets/421688?lang=bi), so I feel it's safe to safe Hebrew writing probably have a metaphorical nature to them inherently.
Replies: >>2608
>>2607
I confess I died at Numbers and never got to Daniel
Replies: >>2609
>>2608
Skip Numbers. Boring as hell. Leviticus drags a lot too. The best bet to be able to grasp traditional Christian teaching is the new Ignatius Catholic Study Bible. While it can be used as a blunt force weapon or doorstop, the commentary is really good and even-handed as far as presenting different interpretations and theories on various passages from the early Church Fathers down to the present day.  It also contains all the books Luther took out, but not as many as say the Ethiopian Coptic Bible or Orthodox Bible. 

Not that the additional books in the Orthodox or Coptic Bible are bad (Enoch makes for an entertaining read), but they're not used in Liturgy in any of the Apostolic Churches AFAIK. The Catholic Church stopped printing them in our Bibles mostly for that reason and because there's no consensus on them being Divinely inspired. The Orthodox Study Bible is good too, but not as detailed as the Ignatius Bible.
Replies: >>2611
>>2609
>The best bet to be able to grasp traditional Christian teaching is the new Ignatius Catholic Study Bible.
Thanks, i`ll keep that in mind.
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