/r/ - Religion

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>>2419 (OP) 
>I'm an Atheist
>I take the assumption of Jesus as God
>Jesus, the historical figure
All christians are atheists, you'll fit right in.
>I just sense the connection to the divine.
>I still don't *feel* God.
Pick one.

Just blindly believe in God and dont think about it. You are British (hopefully) and do whatever you want i dont know.

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>>2419 (OP) 
>I just want to know
Seek data.

>I'm not here to debate
Nothing to say then. Let us know when you're ready to receive arguments.

>>2422
/thread

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>>2422
I'm not seeking data, I've done enough of that and come to the conclusion that what I feel strongest about are essentially aesthetic rather than rational.
I can recognise good and evil, and I know that any argument I make about it is utterly post-hoc. I am content to believe that whatever God is, is the reason for the a priori knowledge of what I feel to be good and evil.
But, I can just as easily say that God is some innate limbic system that serves as our evolutionary memory of sorts.
I have some other reasons I feel God *should* exist, but you can ask me about that.

>Let us know when you're ready to receive arguments.
I say I'm not here to debate in the spirit of listening; I don't think argument is how I'll find faith. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think argumentation is not the way to faith. That led me to really horribly dark places I'm only out of because one day, for no particular reasoned reason, I decided I was emphatically done with nihilism. I think what I'm after is what might be called testimony. We are talking about the irrational, so why would rational debate get us there?

>>2421
I'm better than British, I'm Anglo-Celt. I want to be able to do that, and some very respectable people have told me as much, but it feels like LARPing. I get that performing the rituals of belief will help, but I can't bring myself to honestly pray because it feels false, and I can't just attend church because I feel like I'm intruding on others' genuine faith. I don't want to be some Russell Brand faggot excitedly adopting the blanket of belief with none of the work.

>>2420
>All christians are atheists, you'll fit right in.
I can't deny my cultural habitat hasn't affected me. I was brought up a 2nd generation atheist, but I connect with the story and moral weight of Jesus' story. I want to know how people take the next step from the rational position of "he was a historical figure", to the irrational one of "he was the son of God, begotten and not made, who died on the cross and raised after 3 days."
Plenty of obviously intelligent and otherwise rational people espouse that, and I'm no longer willing to write them off as ignorant or whatever.
>Pick one.
I can feel awestruck, but I can attribute that to biochemical processes. I can sense something is beyond myself on an aesthetic and emotional level, beyond rationality, but appreciating my lineage and ancestry isn't God. If God is a feeling that can be accessed with psychedelic drugs (which incidentally for me didn't work) what are we even talking about?

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>>2425
>the rational position of "he was a historical figure"
Anon, he is a midrashic mythical character written to cope with the loss of the second temple to replace the yom kippur scapegoating ritual brought to you by a self-described genitally mutilated pharisaic rabbi mohel jew from Eastern Turkey. There are no contemporary records of his existence. 
It is deeply irrational to believe in extraordinary jewish claims without extraordinary goy evidence.
>Plenty of obviously intelligent and otherwise rational people espouse that
Fallacy. The truth is the truth regardless of the beliefs of the masses and/or "experts".
>I can sense something is beyond myself on an aesthetic and emotional level, beyond rationality
That is your soul. Try reading the myth of Psyche (the soul) and Eros (love).
>appreciating my lineage and ancestry isn't God.
Correct, that would be your Di Manes (family spirits) and your Genius Populi (national spirit). But you should understand that God absolutely is not the Genius Populi of the jews yahweh. God is the Father: Deus Pater, from where we get the very word itself.
>If God is a feeling that can be accessed with psychedelic drugs (which incidentally for me didn't work) what are we even talking about?
I have no idea what this means or refers to.

>>2425
>I don't want to be some Russell Brand faggot excitedly adopting the blanket of belief with none of the work.
I didnt told you to be Russell Brand, but embrace being a white Anglo man instead.

>I want to be able to do that, and some very respectable people have told me as much, but it feels like LARPing. I get that performing the rituals of belief will help, but I can't bring myself to honestly pray because it feels false, and I can't just attend church because I feel like I'm intruding on others' genuine faith.
As one redditor once put it, "Praying is talking to the universe and meditating is listening to the universe". Im paraphrasing, but you get the idea. Mix between both and notice which works when, its all tied to your mental state, you chakras and shieet. Indo-Europeans molded almost everything in the world along with Far East Asians. Christianity was a molded partially by Greco-Romans no matter how much Danish anon wants to disagree. Indo-Europeans went to MENA and ruled those browns for couple millenia. I used to pray for 7 years every day and now im taking a break, i was never a regular church goer, only went like couple of times in entire year, so make of it what you will and im from an orthodox christian country.
Btw you think a lot, it means you are white and an Anglo at that, thinking a lot is a double-edged sword. Wield it wisely.

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>>2427
>Christianity was a molded partially by Greco-Romans no matter how much Danish anon wants to disagree.
I never said it wasn't. I explicitly said that almost everything about your day to day christianity is in fact, "pagan" (ie. European). The practice of christianity underwent a huge transformation as it moved into Europe, resulting in a mix of European traditions with a coat of jewish paint. As it turns out: blood > ideas. The protestants fucked all of that up, however, by removing the European substance and keeping the jewish scriptures. Now my country is spiritually empty, because when you remove all the European elements (ie. catholicism of both kinds), you're left with the actual bible, and the actual bible is clearly unpalatable to Europeans.
Still, the Cilician genitally mutilated pharisaic rabbi mohel jew author of the new testament does paraquote Plato time and time again and is well versed in Hellenic thought, which he deftly uses to appeal to his target audience: Hellenic goyim. Even the tanakh (ie. the old testament) is written as a reaction and an attempt to refute Hellenism in the 3rd century BCE (see the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tower of babel for example). The jewish authors of both texts certainly lived under the Greco-Roman sphere of influence, but they were still jews who wrote that goyim should give them infinity gibs and worship their tribal deity.
>Indo-Europeans went to MENA and ruled those browns for couple millenia.
That doesn't make jews into Aryans anymore than American Indians and West African slaves are Anglo-Saxon.

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>>2426
> he is a midrashic mythical character
Which says nothing to the rationality of assuming Jesus existed based on the records we have. I also assume Sargon of Akkad and Rameses existed.
>There are no contemporary records of his existence. 
Neither notable nor meaningful.
>The truth is the truth regardless of the beliefs of the masses and/or "experts"
I fully agree, but I say that because it gives me reason to consider that which I had discounted.
>That is your soul.
I remain unconvinced of that, but I'll look into it.
>I have no idea what this means or refers to.
I'm referring to those irrational feelings I previously explained. I've heard plenty of people talk in the same terms about feelings they felt under the influence of drugs, so if it can be artificially induced, is it real? Personally I found my experiences with psychedelics mundane, though very interesting and exhilarating.Is that related to why I don't feel Belief, in the sense of faith in God?
Please continue to use the frame you're using; I fully accept, as stated in the OP, that I am a product of my particular circumstances.

>>2427
>embrace being a white Anglo man instead.
The reality is, the average Anglo is not thinking about God. I will say though, part of my reason for even broaching the topic is because I want to reconnect with my recent ancestors who all believed. I just want it to be authentic, and rooted.
>"Praying is talking to the universe and meditating is listening to the universe"
Well-put. As you say, I may be overthinking things. I'll think on this, however. I'm less concerned with rationality about it, though. We are postmodern people by the fact of our birth into a postmodern time, and I think we should accept that with all the detriment it brings rather than pretend we can recapitulate long-dead threads of our civilisation. Greco-Romans don't matter much to Bazza down the pub, but he might pray like his grandfather did.

>>2428
>The practice of christianity underwent a huge transformation as it moved into Europe, resulting in a mix of European traditions with a coat of jewish paint. As it turns out: blood > ideas.
I agree here from a purely historical perspective; Europe assuming the mantle of (much of) Christianity changed both Europe and Christianity. But, I think that part of the story of Europe isn't an erasure but a continuation of European spiritual thought. I don't know enough about Protestantism to make an intelligent remark beyond perhaps suggesting that it speaks to the German volk tendency to ideology-maxx.
Although in light of that, the less said about the Church of England, the better.
>to appeal to his target audience: Hellenic goyim
You would characterise Celtic, Gallic, Germanic tribes as Hellenic? Tell me more...
>they were still jews who wrote that goyim should give them infinity gibs and worship their tribal deity.
So how about Christianity with strongly anti-semitic characteristics? That is to say, the vast majority of Christian Europe? Jews can hardly disguise their hatred of Christianity, and constantly subvert it, why would they do that to a tool of their creation for their own benefit?

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>>2429
>a lack of evidence does not affect my rational belief in something
Anon, I...
>drugs
I have no comments to make on this topic, as evidenced by not commenting on it previously.
>recent ancestors
No such thing. You can't divide your ancestors. They're all one eternal continuum.
>it speaks to the German volk tendency to ideology-maxx.
100%. It is the same desire for consistency that makes the trains run on time.
>You would characterise Celtic, Gallic, Germanic tribes as Hellenic? Tell me more...
I have to assume you're being facetious, but I can't see what your reason is. Perhaps I wasn't clear: by "Hellenic goyim", I meant "Hellenes and/or Hellenized goyim".
The target audience of Saul is explicitly Hellenes and/or Hellenized goyim, which is why he wrote in Greek and referenced Hellenic culture. If his letters to various goy communities are actually letters and not just disguised polemics (big if!), he also sent letters to Hellenized goy communities.
Celts, Gauls and Germanics can technically all fall under the category of "Hellenized goyim", but he didn't write to any goyim outside of the Greco-Roman world at all to my knowledge. There are no letters to the Goths or the Saxons, because Saul has never heard of Goths and Saxons and he is primarily concerned with avenging his people against his hated enemy: Rome (which in his part of the world would be GRECO-Roman, not Greco-ROMAN).
>So how about Christianity with strongly anti-semitic characteristics?
What christianized goy plebs did a thousand years later is irrelevant to the identity of the authors of the bible. Bolsheviks killed mensheviks, including jews, but that doesn't make Lenin and Marx goyim. That being said, christianity, in practice, as a whole is extraordinarily philo-semitic. It literally outlawed all national traditions everywhere it spread except the jewish ones, under penalty of death.
>Jews can hardly disguise their hatred of Christianity
kek wrong
The king jew himself wishes them merry christmas every year and thanks them for their existentially necessary support for the existence of the jewish people. 
But regardless, catholics hate protestants and vice versa, but protestantism still clearly comes out of catholicism.
>why would they [hate/subvert] a tool of their creation for their own benefit?
It's neither hatred nor subversion. Let's say you build a house for your own benefit. You move in to the house. You begin to notice flaws you hadn't anticipated, or perhaps there's a storm that blows off some roof panels or whatever. Age sets in, and the floors begin to sag. The paint gets worn. A hoodlum breaks a window. Maybe you leave town a weekend and you let your neighbors borrow the house and they mess it up.
You'll go to work fixing it, right?

That being said, judaic jews definitely don't want jews to become christian, but they absolutely love that goyim are christian. Even as far back as the Rambam, they were writing about how great it was that christianity and islam were spreading the worship of their tribal deity to the whole world.

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>>2431
PS.
>picrels
Remember that "nations" and "gentiles" are interchangeable translations for "ethne" (in the Greek) and "goyim" (in the Hebrew), meaning "non-jewish ethnic group(s)". It has nothing to do with belief, even if some subversive translations render it as "heathens" and "pagans" to disguise the jewish racial supremacy.
Look up the Greek and the Hebrew yourself if you doubt me.

>>2429
>The reality is, the average Anglo is not thinking about God.
Why would he? Anglos/Aryans overall were Gods and ruling elites themselves. Talk about the downfall of man. If it wasnt the Sky Father or Yahweh then it was Aryan man himself. You are Gods among men in away, just dont let yourself be crushed under your own hubris.

>We are postmodern people by the fact of our birth into a postmodern time, and I think we should accept that with all the detriment it brings rather than pretend we can recapitulate long-dead threads of our civilisation. Greco-Romans don't matter much to Bazza down the pub, but he might pray like his grandfather did.
In no way are we postmodern, our thoughts might be due to the zeitgeist moving forward, but our very organisms and taxonomy is millenia upon millenia old, we are still very adaptable to anything if the situations necessitates. You are not aware of how human body is durable and adaptable to all kinds of circumstances, it was molded by immense suffering in the past to withstand all sorts of things. You might be a bit out of the shape atm, but God forbid a unlucky or undesirable situation and your body will not let you simply give up. Unless you are a woman, then in that regard, God help you...

A whole lot more shit from me, enjoy!

>>2433
Good post, Serbanon.
>Unless you are a woman, then in that regard, God help you...
Watch a woman go through labor and you might reconsider that position.

>>2435
Coding everything in light of jews (not simply judaism), is a byproduct of criticism and discussion of jews being forbidden as a target in any negative lens since the end of the 1940's in most countries. No other group has this stringent and harsh of consequences tied with saying anything about them, despite the provability of their role in every civilization-destroying social, economic, cultural, and political movement. Never forget that the Manchus (0.5% of ancient China's ethnic demographics) completely usurped a nation even with divine right of kings to do the same thing as the jews do now to native populations.

>>2437
I am using coding in the sense of finding jewish influence and spotting patterns native to them, in any political, economic, and cultural event that appears. I don't code things in the sense you are using it now, such as referring to humans (especially Europeans) as goy even jokingly unless they are a literal shabbos goy as many politicians and influencers are.

I'm the anon that discussed de-judiazing the English language itself earlier this year down to removing 'glitch' from vernacular, in fact.

>>2438
As a follow-up, using 'Whites' and 'goy' even jokingly to one another is the same thing as blacks referring to themselves as nigger. I would stress all of you to cease taking up the terminology of your direst enemies even as a source of pride.

>>2438
My objection is eventually the point about "but how does it effect the jews"  becomes so salient to this type of person that eventually they lose sight of their own interests. Pretty soon the entire conversation gets reduced to something like: If it doesn't attack Jewish power, it must be bad. Which is obviously fallacious and self defeating

>>2440
>If it doesn't attack Jewish power, it must be bad. Which is obviously fallacious and self defeating
I am saying this without a hint of irony or hyperbole: harm to jews is good for ethnic Europeans. They are the same statement; what is good for them leads to our destruction, and what leads to their destruction is good for building up ourselves. Helping ethnic Europeans harms jews equally. Every variation of inverse, reverse, contrapositive, and so forth in argument holds true when I've examined it, I've found this pattern to hold true for all scenarios, so far.
>but what about removing all oxygen, killing everyone, etc., to own the jews
No, because that would be a direct harm to ethnic Europeans.

Our own interests is affecting the jews negatively; seeking our interests is harm to them. This does not hold for every other ethnic or religious group, but it does hold with jews.

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>>2435
If you don't want to talk about jews and their jewish ideas, you're free to go literally anywhere else on the internet. I hear reddit is nice this time of the year.

>>2434
>Watch a woman go through labor and you might reconsider that position.
Yeah, Venus is proficient in opening all sorts of doors.

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>>2440
>attacking jewish power is self-defeating
The mask slips.

>>2441
I mean we're going off topic, but while your point is correct at a certain level, it also seems obvious that the Likud/Zionist right is assisting in the cultivation of European Idpol since they see it as a counterweight to Islamism.  I suppose my point is the existence of Idpol does not necessitate a war between conflicting racial identities. At least once the boundaries are cleanly drawn. You Americans do have a valid cause to begin questioning some of them

>>2442
I could literally write a bot that would type what you think, whenever you feel the need to post about it.

>>2443
Technically Venus isn't involved in childbirth per se, but I appreciate the allegory.

>>2446
I didnt want to write just "vagina" cuz for the message to sound more sophisticated.

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>>2431
>Anon, I...
The relative lack of evidence compared to the amount of time that evidence must survive, is my point. It is as about reasonable to believe Jesus existed as my great-great-great grandmother.
>They're all one eternal continuum.
I mean, sure, but obviously I mean those ancestors that are relatively recently deceased rather than the concept of "ancestor" that encapsulates everyone from my grandfather to Mitochondrial Eve.
>100%. It is the same desire for consistency that makes the trains run on time.
I'm glad we agree on that, it's helpful to understand you.
>I have to assume you're being facetious
Not at all. I asked completely naively.
>Hellenized goyim, which is why he wrote in Greek and referenced Hellenic culture.
As far as I understand, the Mediterranean lingua franca was Greek, which explains that better than the disparate tribes of central, western, and northern Europe being Hellenic. The druids of Celtic Britons, as far as my limited research tells me, were somewhere between Animists and Sun worshippers. Northern Europe had a Hellenist-style pantheon for sure, but the archetypes seem more like a convergent idea than an adopted one.
I guess by the time of Christian takeover you have Anglo-Saxons with a similar pantheon adopted from northern Europe, but I still doubt it being Hellenic; simple adaptation decay would account for it.
>christianity, in practice, as a whole is extraordinarily philo-semitic.
It very much depends on time, place, and interpretation; but I'll agree in principle.
>It literally outlawed all national traditions everywhere it spread except the jewish ones, under penalty of death.
The only way this could be true is if you also called Islamic societies philosemetic, which should be absurd. Those Jewish traditions I assume you're referring to aren't passat and hanukkah, but are Christmas and Easter.
>The king jew himself wishes them merry christmas every year and thanks them for their existentially necessary support for the existence of the jewish people. 
"Man in charge of national interest pleases those he derives national security from"
If jews were in charge of deporting all browns from my nation, I'd wish them happy hanukkah.
>You'll go to work fixing it, right?
This is a fair point, except that I'm not defacing my house to repaint it. I'm not at all pro-jew, but I don't think they as a race set up a cogent and dominant successor religion to unite the people of Europe because they costed in having jews handle loans. Maybe they did, but I doubt it.

>>2433
>dont let yourself be crushed under your own hubris.
Thus was ~Liberalism.
>In no way are we postmodern
The very formats we use to express ourselves here are postmodern. We speak in symbols and narratives; we are heightened to irony and sarcasm. Meaning is always an interpretation away. You're probably wondering if I'm even serious.
>our very organisms and taxonomy is millenia upon millenia old, we are still very adaptable to anything if the situations necessitates
Sure, but the situation we have is not one we evolved for, it is one we created via evolution. Mass extinctions have been a result of "situations".
>Unless you are a woman, then in that regard, God help you...
I was, very thankfully to whatever the God that meant I was, conceived by a sperm cell with a Y chromosome. I've brought up a daughter for 17 years and fuck being a girl. Not that they have it hard, it's that they make everything difficult for themselves.

So, I appreciate the subsequent discussion, but can I just ask for a story about your Belief, no matter what that belief is? I realise now I made a fucking terrible error in identifying my belief rather than just opening to all. So yeah, forget Europe and Christ and history. What does Faith feel like?

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>>2448
>It is as about reasonable to believe Jesus existed as my great-great-great grandmother.
I've got to assume that you're just trolling at this point. In case you just have a deficient logic center: your ancestor existed with 100% certainty, logically inferable from your very existence. A character in a book is not even remotely comparable. The existence of is as absolutely undeniable as your own existence should be to yourself, the other is at least debatable.
>Northern Europe
Anon, Saul never wrote a single word aimed at Northern Europe. His target audience is the Greco-Roman world, and since he lived in the Eastern part, that is the Hellenized world. I already explained this. Obviously Nordics weren't Hellenized (and you're wrong about all of your assumptions there too, but that's irrelevant to this conversation).
>The only way this could be true is if you also called Islamic societies philosemetic, which should be absurd. 
It is. Judaism and jews are literally a protected group in Islamic doctrine. It should be no surprise that the people who worship the tribal god of the jews are philosemites. Until the creation of Israel, millions of jews had lived happily among muslims for a thousand years.
>If jews were in charge of deporting all browns from my nation, I'd wish them happy hanukkah.
They are. That's why it isn't happening. And it's a retarded argument regardless, since why would the jews "barely be able to disguise their hatred for" the source of their political power? Keep up.
>that I'm not defacing my house to repaint it
That's just a subjective question of taste. And scripturally, modern zionist evangelicals are a lot closer to the bible than previous versions of christianity. Make them unitarian, arianist and predeterminist and they'd be fully good to go. Jewish ongoing intervention in christianity has been a restoration to the christianity that they originally devised.
>I don't think they as a race set up a cogent and dominant successor religion to unite the people of Europe 
I never said "as a race", that's a complete strawman. But SOME jews certainly did, since SOME jews wrote the bible. Just read the damn book. That's the explicit purpose of the messiah as prophecied in the old testament and as repeated in the new testament. This is not even remotely debatable, and all christian denominations agree that jews gave the world the messiah and that the messiah is meant to make all the goyim bend the knee. Every tongue shall confess etc etc. Read the book you're making apologia for before posting.
>because they costed in having jews handle loans.
I have no idea what this means. A globohomo banking empire to subjugate the goyim is explicit in the bible. It's like you're not reading the verses I'm posting.

>whatever the God that meant I was, conceived by a sperm cell with a Y chromosome
You were always male. There is no sexless or female version of you. But the deity responsible for manhood is Deus Mars, also known as Ares and Frey.

>can I just ask for a story about your Belief
This one time, at band camp, I stopped trusting the opinions of jewish authors on le friggin scienceTM and misanthropic and universally hated Levantine desert bandits from Antiquity and wondered how one should lead a virtuous life, honor my forefathers, serve my people and prepare my progeny for the struggle they're entering. Then I did those things, and saw the gods respond in kind. I give so that they may give and they give so that I may give.

>fuck being a girl. 
>they make everything difficult for themselves.
>What does Faith feel like?
>feel
Stop worrying about your damn feelings. You're making everything difficult for yourself.

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>>2448
>The very formats we use to express ourselves here are postmodern. We speak in symbols and narratives; we are heightened to irony and sarcasm. Meaning is always an interpretation away. You're probably wondering if I'm even serious.
Part of the zeitgeist, but definitely not exclusive to the current one, more like incredibly widespread and accepted today. 

>Sure, but the situation we have is not one we evolved for, it is one we created via evolution. Mass extinctions have been a result of "situations".
Going off topic here a bit, but yes the phyisical meat/bone/muscle achieved its peak imho (take a look at Arno Breker sculptures) and now we will utilize metal and power of electricity for further evolve, its all part of nature/evolution ironically, and with each step taken its an act of balancing to move forward. This statement i just brought up is in itself incredibly hard to grasp due to shire scale just like big numbers in prehistory. Humans wont go extinct unless God himself directly intervenes and snaps his fingers otherwise its just gonna be a continous struggle for improvement. Species which branch off into niches will most likely perish as many are set in that trajectory already, others will thrive with man like domesticated felids and dogs (felids definitely being the most smartest of the critter bunch). So when Leftists relativize evolution, its complete crap so they can justify their degeneracy, LGBT is at core narcissistic and cant produce off spring, to the trash it goes, and the real men march keep marching on. I wanted to add couple of other points, but they flew out of my head... So the "indominable human spiriti" huh? Its "indominable white spirit" in fact, because otherwise other races would perish like all other hominids already or in the future. Evolution is a process and processes have a points/goals, how strictly are they defined not very important, but they exist and Left hates to hear you slap the word "goal" to "evolution", because it hurts them inside. After all, i just might be wrong and everything i wrote and probably projecting if Left decides to call it like that.

>I've brought up a daughter for 17 years and fuck being a girl. Not that they have it hard, it's that they make everything difficult for themselves.
Awesome, you already did more than many anons, you are a father. Im just a serbian NEET with not so much life experience.

>So, I appreciate the subsequent discussion, but can I just ask for a story about your Belief, no matter what that belief is?
Grew up between two types of households. On my mothers side it was a very superstitious half faced belief in orthodox christianity because its "dey peoplez folks beliefs and customz" without further thoughts given. And on my fathers side, a open minded and strong willed men all around, seeking knowledge and understanding of things. Instinctually i choose the latter since you must learn to be flexible in life and not convulsed. Growing up in Vojvodina and a half Hungarian village definitely helped, it is a mostly white neighbourhood where i was also exposed to catholicism and orthodoxy at an early age and neither was protestantism really foreign to me. But if you knew me, you would call me a pantheist or omnist or whatever the fuck, but i still keep onto the orthodox christian bedrock of Serbia in small ways like prayers from time to time or crossing myself when i feel really great and like to thank God for all the strength he has given me so far. There is a saying here in Serbia "Take care of yourself and God will too", it straight up says that you shouldnt solely rely on God for staying alive and all, you must put in effort yourself and God will notice that and award accordingly, God is not a wishing fairy, he is an ideal with great sense of humour and someone who loves to see good willed men push through and rewards them accordingly.

>What does Faith feel like?
Pretty good, but you must have faith in yourself, be confident, not overlyconfident because that leads to vanity, you know the extremes, gotta keep balancing.

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>>2450
>Take care of yourself and God will too
Based and Aesop-pilled.

>>2449
Different anon, its not 100% certain because of pedigree collapse. You could have 31 great great great grandparents instead of 32.

>>2452
True, but you still have a great-great-great grandmother with perfect certainty. It's impossible to have a broken ancestry line with missing links unless we allow for the wholly fantastical like virgin births and the like.

>>2453
>unless we allow for
Incest may have happened, and that is a lot less fantastical.

>>2454
It's still impossible for you to not have a great great great grandmother. Due to pedigree collapse/incest, you might just not have the "full amount" of them, so to speak.

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>>2449
>The existence of is as absolutely undeniable as your own existence should be to yourself, the other is at least debatable
There's probably an eloquent way to differentiate here but I only post here drunk. You're initially right, but substantially wrong.
>His target audience is the Greco-Roman world
My assumptions are wildly off the table, you are espousing something I've neither heard of nor considered. So then, how do Celts and Britons fit in this?
>Until the creation of Israel, millions of jews had lived happily among muslims for a thousand years.
Really though? There are prominent Hadiths calling explicitly for the genocide of jews. I've never read anything with such animosity even to their assumed final enemy, the Romans (usually taken as White Europeans). Christians are given the option of Jizya or conversion, while jews are expected to be eradicated under the final caliphate.
>Make them unitarian
Might as well say Whites should be eradicated for coming up with communism.
>jews gave the world the messiah and that the messiah is meant to make all the goyim bend the knee. Every tongue shall confess etc etc.
And yet the jews rejected the messiah. I'm not particularly biblically educated, but isn't that the main conflict between jews and Christians? That they killed the Son of God?
>There is no sexless or female version of you.
Not of me, for sure. I am the product of my development, destined by my circumstances.
>Then I did those things, and saw the gods respond in kind.
That's part of my problem. Obviously doing the right things lead to the right outcomes, but how is that not natural law over the divine? Or do you argue that there is nothing between those things?
>Stop worrying about your damn feelings. You're making everything difficult for yourself.
Fair fucking play.

>>2450
>but definitely not exclusive to the current one
I'm interested to know what you're referring to here.
>Humans wont go extinct unless God himself directly intervenes and snaps his fingers
This seems like a statement of faith. Why are you sure about this?
>when Leftists relativize evolution, its complete crap so they can justify their degeneracy, LGBT is at core narcissistic and cant produce off spring, to the trash it goes, and the real men march keep marching on
Entirely agree, emphatically.
>"indominable white spirit"
That certainly seems to be the origin of human flourishing. Even China couldn't reach the stars they covet without White Man's impulse to have it all.
>Left hates to hear you slap the word "goal" to "evolution"
I'll bat for a moment for the left here; evolution is the refinement of what works, and as circumstances change so does what works. Entire species have died thanks to their ecological niche disappearing. Humans are mostly unique in being able to manufacture the conditions needed for survival and thriving, no matter the circumstance. Well, at least everyone to some extent but Africans. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a day. Teach a nigger to fish, he'll pawn your rod and get high instead.
>Im just a serbian NEET with not so much life experience.
In my possibly comparatively vast life experience: it's not that meaningful. Just be important to someone. Be the most important person to the first person you think of as important to you. Or try to be.
>you shouldnt solely rely on God for staying alive and all, you must put in effort yourself and God will notice that and award accordingly, God is not a wishing fairy, he is an ideal with great sense of humour and someone who loves to see good willed men push through and rewards them accordingly.
I really like this, thank you.
>you must have faith in yourself
That is where I've always struggled. Thanks, Serb-anon.

>>2453
>True, but you still have a great-great-great grandmother with perfect certainty
But do you know who she was? Of my mother I have memories and a phone number. Of my grandmother I have pictures, memories, and a confused woman in full time medical care. Of my great-grandmother I have her shellac records, and the stories I was told by her daughter. I don't even have the recollections of the memory of the child of my great-great grandmother.
That's my point. Obviously she existed, but so does an origin to the story of Christ, be it a myth, folktale, or fabrication. An inelegant analogy, but I hope you'll forgive me.

>>2456
>but I only post here drunk. 
>I'm not particularly biblically educated
>You're substantially wrong.
This speaks for itself.
>So then, how do Celts and Britons fit in this?
I've already covered this. Reread my posts when sober.
>Christians are given the option of Jizya or conversion, while jews are expected to be eradicated
Do basic research on your own time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi
>the final caliphate
Two more weeks. Trust the plan. Mohammedans in control.
>And yet the jews rejected the messiah.
You're just impulsively drunkposting at this point. Make a sober counterpoint instead of just typing the first thing that comes to mind.
>Or do you argue that there is nothing between those things?
To oversimplify, yes.
>But do you know who she was?
Goalpost moving.

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>I'm interested to know what you're referring to here.
While we dont have much great evidence, i bet Roman youth for example had their own retarded lingo and behaviour during the height and fall of the Empire, while milk and honey was flowing, they were spoiled and became weak until the barbarians breached the gates. However i will say that none of the past examples are EXTREME as the current one is especially due to technology, but the concept is now new in itself, i guess its just the severity of it over time due to things expanding.

>This seems like a statement of faith. Why are you sure about this?
I unironically believe if KT were to occur again, the asteroid would be obliterated mid trajectory to Earth, everything would be prepared months even years in advance to avoid such a disaster, thats why i find end of the world movies cringe, its fear mongering propaganda by Jews, "2012" was literally ended on Noah`s Ark flood moment, i watched with my family when i was a kid and it gave me immense fear and existential dread/depression for some time, but later in life i realised how propagandish it is on an emotional level and films like it.

>I'll bat for a moment for the left here; evolution is the refinement of what works, and as circumstances change so does what works.
Best achieved goals are the ones with trial and error, from trial and error you learn more, its adversity. Some species just were content or gave up and stayed in a niche, many of niches throughout time have come to an end especially today more than in any other period. When leftists gush over "muh diversity" in animal kingdom they are on hyper copium, as much as i love animals and stuff, their inherent existence depends on and is responsibility of homo sapiens the one at the top (connect it to thr Garden of Eden and other similiart myths). Only way i see other species somehow thriving again like in the past is when space colonization is a thing and then planets become giant Zoo and roles are reversed, national parks as smaller places become places for humans and rest of the planet is left undisturbed for all other animals and they are monitored but they have much more freedom to live untouched. Just a stupid line of thought i had.

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Start watching Steven Anderson. This man is the greatest entire bible preaching Pastor I have found to date.

https://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/page5.html

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>>2459
The gigacuck who applauds as he marries White women to blacks?
Just part and parcel of worshipping the tribal demon of the jews, I guess.

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Thanks, I guess.

>>2459
>Faithful Word Baptist Church
Sounds like some faggy liberal bullshit tbh.

I clicked the link and saw Africans and fat latinos, no thanks.

>>2457
>I've already covered this. Reread my posts when sober.
Celts nor Britons were Hellenised, but were Christianised. The Roman impact on Britons is so minimal as to be a mere artefact of history. The adoption of Latin as the language of the learned happened after Christianisation.
>Do basic research on your own time:
Fair enough, the article claims jews get to pay jizya. I did not know that, but hadiths I'm referring to are about the final caliphate, not conquered territories.
>>the final caliphate
>Two more weeks. Trust the plan. Mohammedans in control.
One of the reasons I'm here is because I can see evil for what it is, and islam is obviously evil.
>You're just impulsively drunkposting at this point
perhaps, but if Jesus is the messiah, jews rejected Him. I'm sure there's a 4D chess explanation for how that actually benefits jews, but they also got expelled from christian territories for hundreds of years.
>To oversimplify, yes.
OK, I get that. Seems primitively self-serving, and circular in logic, but it makes sense as the wisdom of ancestors.
>Goalpost moving.
to the point you were trying to make off my statement, sure. But it is integral to the point I was initially making.

>>2458
>Roman youth for example had their own retarded lingo and behaviour during the height and fall of the Empire
Sure, but that isn't equivalent to postmodernism, which is characterised by irony and symbolism that only tangentially relate to the physical world.
> its fear mongering propaganda by Jews, "2012" was literally ended on Noah`s Ark flood moment,
I agree here, but it's still a statement of faith; and faith is what I'm trying to understand.
> Just a stupid line of thought i had.
Despite the fact that I think you're wrong, it's not a stupid thought. What you describe is how it looks, probably hence the myth.

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>>2464
>I agree here, but it's still a statement of faith; and faith is what I'm trying to understand.
Well to answer you faith question in the best way i can think of... it would be the mystery surrounding it. What has happened in today`s world is that have removed mystery everywhere, like for example how all upcoming video games are datamined months before release. It is the unknowable in the very moment, that something is out there beyond observable that influences things here and now. Faith is not about pure laid out practical knowledge from my understanding which then might lead from basic confidence to overconfidence and then vanity which destroys you, now that i think about it besides being circular, faith doesnt neccessarily gatekeeps you from knowledge, but rather in some areas shields you and balances the soul out to not go overboard. What do you think? Faith is will to die for something greater then yourself, it on most basic level could be called a "gut feeling" which again doesnt tap into that pure material practical knowledge which pushes things to extreme and you just end up fucked.

>pic related for Danish anon to get angry at me again lol.

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>>2465
>on most basic level could be called a "gut feeling"
That's really where I'm at. I've rejected nihilism and subjective morality, and what I'm left with is aesthetics. Things *feel* good or bad. It feels very disappointing to admit that as a former scientist.
>Faith is will to die for something greater then yourself
I answer this second because I had to pause and think about what I would without hesitation die for, and it is only my daughter. And then it makes sense; she is what is greater then myself. She will (God willing) outlast me and be my legacy.
>faith doesnt neccessarily gatekeeps you from knowledge, but rather in some areas shields you and balances the soul out to not go overboard
I get this, it is humility before pride. A check before suffering the consequence of hubris.
I don't like the idea of "God of the gaps" though. I don't think it makes sense to ascribe to God all that we don't understand. But then again, my conception of what God is accepts the inexplicable. I'm in a horrible tension between my rational impulse for understanding and leaving gaps to be understood, and the irrational ideas of morality and accepting the hunch that what I believe rationally is not complete knowledge. And apart from all that, giving a "real" nature to a rhetorical idea of God. I see the gaps where God exists, but I can't have faith that that gap is God.

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>>2466
Well i would say that certainly your upbringing can influence how you put up and take on things in life. Im a practical guy myself somewhat like you, im always in favor of a empirical and rational answer, but how i deal with it, is that i pause and try to graps the limits in certain moments. So this is gonna sound a bit wierd, but you shouldnt let yourself be led by doubtfullness in yourself about the gaps of knowledge whether they are God or not, because you are not any less of a person whether you do or not, its the actions and how you set yourself out there with those actions. Im 100% sure that if there is God in this context, he would care less about you not leading yourself like that. 

How i define good and evil from the purely materialistic worldview is that good is everything that is active, moves, lives etc. and evil is pure erasure, death and destruction, bringing down the high action and energy by trying to erase it, it doesnt want to be, but good wants to be and its a perpetual cycle. Now i got mad once because i started questioning the very premise of it and trying to understand why would that be THE explanation for EVERYTHING. Can it even be questioned? Is there no alternative besides already established outcome if one of the two sides/principles gets their way? Is it testable in the 3D dimension/plane of existence? These questions literally fried my brain. I just described yin/yang in a way. Lets be serious, we dont even know enough about the very plane of existence we reside in, and we already jump the ship in our heads to the 4th plane (just going in basic numerical order). 

Now this is where contentness comes in, you know, blowing the steam and appriciating the moment. Its fun, but learn to give it a break lol. Its 4 in the morning God daaamn...

Good night...

>>2464
Reread my posts when sober.
>I'm sure there's a 4D chess explanation for how that actually benefits jews
Just regular chess. Half the world worships the tribal god of the jews as a result, and the most productive race on the planet is enslaved to them via usury. All of which is planned out in the tanakh, from which they also got the prophesied idea for a midrashic messiah that they would themselves reject. Read the verses I posted.
>they also got expelled from christian territories for hundreds of years.
Jews were never expelled from christendom as a whole.
If you want to crusadelarp like this, name the christian crusade against jewry. I can name several against Europeans (Northern, Albigensian, etc), but not one against jews.
>But it is integral to the point I was initially making.
Then you probably should have made that clear when you initially failed to make that point.

Consider being sober.

>>2465
I am but conveying Hitler's disapproval of your judeo-Aryan-syncretic shenanigans.

>>2466
>I've rejected subjective morality, and what I'm left with is aesthetics. Things *feel* good or bad.
That is subjective though. There is no such thing as objective morality, and the very term itself appears to me as an Anglo abstract fabrication.
>I don't like the idea of "God of the gaps" though. I don't think it makes sense to ascribe to God all that we don't understand. 
Agreed. This is just atheism with extra steps. My local priest talks of God this way, and it is entirely meaningless.
>>2467
>good
>active, moves, lives
>evil
>pure erasure, death and destruction
You're actually describing Creation and Entropy as cosmic forces here, rather than moralfagging. Interesting.
I'm going to mention Order as the third force. If you compare that to European religion, you'll note that natural spirits such as nymphs and most titans fall into the Creation group, with most giants* falling into the Entropy group. The gods of Olympus are gods of Order, keeping Entropy at bay and ordering Creation.
If you group Creation and Entropy together, you have chaos.
If you group Creation and Order together, you have civilization.
If you group Order and Entropy together, you have death.

*This is very explicit in Nordic mythology where the giants are called ettins: meaning "devourers" or "consumers".

>>2419 (OP) 
Spent over the first thirty years of my life as an anti-theist nihilist materialist. Then [insert multi-paragraph unsolicited blogpost about my religious musical no one here would bother reading].

As for OP's question: the closest thing I could consider a religious experience would be: love and bliss, feeling nothing but liberation from all negativity from all spheres: physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. Before then I didn't even KNOW I had a spirituality, it was completely dead before that moment. The-- it wasn't a feeling, but complete lack of emotion, and that lack, that liberation, that "falling away from my eyes", that "uncovering my mind of defilements", was pure love and bliss, which lasted about a week. Love is NOT a feeling: I personally experienced what love really is that one and only time and no I have no idea how to explain it in words other than, maybe, an inexplicable connection -- to what? The cosmic consciousness, the ultimate ground of being, the Tao, God, Odin, Zeus, Krishna, Buddha, Mohammed? Happened during an extended stressful event culminating from years of suffering and sorrow, when one thought triggered my release: "God wouldn't make me suffer any more than I can bear."

Shame I've backslid hard into my pit of depression. Not going back to atheism, though, oh no: there IS a God and his name is Satan. I feel tricked.

>>2419 (OP) 
Oops, forgot to answer your other question:

> What does "belief" feel like?

Letting go. Trusting the universe, God, or whatever ultimate ground of being to hold the play of all existence in its hands and to know all that will happen and that this unnameable nameless everything-nothing one-without-a-second (tat tvam asi: you are that) has accounted for all the missteps of the dance that is the musical theater of all there is, was, and will be -- and that it will not be hurried by your impatience and your lack of faith.

Faith is letting go; to believe (as a conscious, intelligent deliberation) is to cling. You are not the world's handyman, the tides will come and then recede on their own accord and you cannot command the rain to water your crops. The trees do not shout at their blossoms to bloom before spring, the moon will fall and the sun will rise at the appointed hour and needs not your knowledge nor consent.

There's nothing wrong with you at all, stop trying to fix yourself.

Jesus Christ has given a blunt command in the Sermon on the Mount: do not be anxious.

Zen masters will tell you that before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. The same master will tell you upon enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.